dec. 11 - going on 5 days with no porn; strong desire to masturbate; everything I've ever read said masturbation is healthy; if I can do it without porn, why is that not okay? most of the time when I masturbate away from a PC, I am not thinking about porn images. I AM thinking of other women besides my wife; women I know or have seen. Does anyone ever masturbate without an image in their head? doesn't seem possible to me.
dec. 10 - 4 days of bed before 10pm; 4 days of no porn; begin have desire to masturbate; started searching the forums at TTF for advice here and not liking what I am seeing - seems like most participants think masturbation alone is not a good thing.
dec. 9 - new Qwest modem provides no content restriction capability; had this with last modem; need this capability for myself and my teenage boys
dec. 8 -went to bed before 10pm, a very rare occurrence, but eliminated 2-3 hours/day of opportunity
dec. 7 - decide its time to quit porn, joined through the flame, put together action plan, make first post to New Member area
dec. 11 - going on 5 days with no porn; strong desire to masturbate; everything I've ever read said masturbation is healthy; if I can do it without porn, why is that not okay? most of the time when I masturbate away from a PC, I am not thinking about porn images. I AM thinking of other women besides my wife; women I know or have seen. Does anyone ever masturbate without an image in their head? doesn't seem possible to me.
jrock,
There have been many PAs here who have expressed their views about this very topic. I encourage you to read some of the journals here to see the views shared by others.
IMO, and this is simply my opinion, if you are still indulging in the fantasy when you MB, even only in your mind, you are not stopping the addictive behavior. You are giving it fuel from another source and justifying it as "I am not viewing P".
Simply something to think about,
~C~
“There is no pain equal to that which two lovers can inflict on one another. This should be made clear to all who contemplate such a union. The avoidance of this pain is the beginning of wisdom, for it is strong enough to contaminate the rest of our lives.” ~ Cyril Connolly
"Life is not how it is supposed to be. It is the way it is. The way you cope with it is what makes the difference." ~ Unknown
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Crisodian - I understand what you are saying.... I guess the question for me is this: everything I've ever read says masturbation is healthy when done in moderation. If this is true, what do men usually think about if they have a "healthy" view of masturbation? after a life of masturbation (2-3 times/week from age 12 to ~38; 2 times/day from 38 to 48), it is hard for me to think of masturbation without some image in my head. what do women think about during masturbation? does healthy masturbation mean you do it without an image in your head? I do not know. I know I am only 5 days in and shouldn't be trying to figure out how I can masturbate without "violating" anything. In the meantime, I am still abstaining.
I know I am only 5 days in and shouldn't be trying to figure out how I can masturbate without "violating" anything. In the meantime, I am still abstaining.
I think your questions are valid. There are many PAs here who subscribe to total abstinence, and others who find that they can still MB. But.....
I am the SO of a PA. As a woman, we have very different views of MB. That being said, I also do not struggle with P addiction. I have been a recovering non-P addict for 15 years, however. And the only word of caution I would share is one you already noted. You are trying to "figure out" how to not "violate" anything.
I would suggest, by your comment alone, you know you are rationalizing the use of MB and trying to find an excuse to continue the practice without feeling like you are in violation. Let me suggest, if you feel that MB is a violation, then it is. And you shouldn't be trying to figure out if it fits in your recovery plan.
Just my thoughts looking from the outside in.
In my recovery, if I felt I was skating on thin ice, if I was trying to "figure out how not to violate" then, I WAS violating just by coming up with rationaliztions and excuses. Everyone's recovery is different. You need to find what is "OK" with you and what works for you.
Something to think about.
Peace,
~C~
“There is no pain equal to that which two lovers can inflict on one another. This should be made clear to all who contemplate such a union. The avoidance of this pain is the beginning of wisdom, for it is strong enough to contaminate the rest of our lives.” ~ Cyril Connolly
"Life is not how it is supposed to be. It is the way it is. The way you cope with it is what makes the difference." ~ Unknown
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Red wine is supposed to be healthy for you but if you are an alcoholic it is still alcohol.
I want to propose a thought for you to think about which I found for myself. Are you truly a p addict or are you addicted to lust? Do you get a buzz from the fantasies in your head? Does the p feed the fantasies in your head?
I agree with Cris that it sounds like you're trying to justify but you have to come to that realization by yourself. In SA we say sobriety is a "progressive victory over lust". Good luck.
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thanks for the input, crisodian. i see what you are saying. when i think about it, i don't need porn to masturbate and when i am in the act, i am generally not thinking of any porn images. this was true my entire life. porn was an add-on that drastically increased the masturbation. if I had never discovered porn to begin with, i would still be masturbating. given the link between the 2, i understand that i can't be finding loopholes already. i get that. it just made me think, i masturbated before porn, so now what? i am not jumping into masturbating because i don't have answers to my questions.
i just would like to know what a healthy/happy married masturbator thinks of when they are in the act?
i guess i could just make love to my wife or we could both masturbate together. if that's my only outlet, that is a good thing
I made it a week!!! I don't think this has happened in over 10 years. I know this will get more difficult but the first week wasn't bad. Last night, my wife and I made love and that's all I thought about during sex was my wife!!! I had one slightly weak point where a woman from work popped into my head, but I quickly dismissed it. I can't remember the last time I made love to my wife without using an image of another woman. This is the first 7 day period where I went to bed at the same time as my wife. I cut out at least 18 hours of potential porn time this week. I still don't have a filter with the new DSL modem but I was never tempted. I also still need to ask my neighbor to put a WEP key on his internet (my excuse is that my 2 teenage boys need the protection). I got close to masturbating a few times, but since I couldn't get a clear understanding through this forum and thru internet searches of what I should allow right now, I chose not to masturbate. My current thinking here based on reading tons of text is: I will continue not to masturbate to prove I can live independent of masturbation and porn. At some point in the future, I can't see living without masturbation. For now, I need to break the link between porn and masturbation. anyway, a good first week. our lovemaking last night had a different feel to it. it was uncluttered, we both orgasmed, and i know my wife was much more turned on than normal.
so far so good. this week didn't go to bed as early - was not tempted. haven't masturbated alone yet (1 instance with wife). our new dsl modem doesn't have software to filter out porn and I have not bought a new sw package to filter it out yet - so it is 100% accessible and I have not been tempted. Just having a forum to write this down and reading how others struggling with this addiction are trying to improve themselves has been so theraputic for me. whoever thought of an internet AA for porn is an amazing genius - a place to be open without the embarrassment... I still have a few items to complete: 1- ask the neighbor to use a wep key so his wireless is inaccessible, and 2 - get a filter on our home wireless. Thanks to several of you for the words of encouragement. I think the most interesting interaction I've had has been with wives whose husbands are into porn. To be able to hear the other side of this is impactful for me. it helps me visualize what my wife is thinking. which I now have a confession to make. I have not told my wife that I am seriously trying to quit porn - she doesn't know i am on this website. she doesn't know its been 11 days. I can't tell her right now. after at least 3-4 attempts to quit porn in past, all based on discussions with my wife, I failed. its been awhile since we've had the discussion and I am sure she has her doubts about me, but we just don't talk about it. I feel that if I tell her I am quitting, it will be telling her I looked at porn and masturbated 1-2 times a day everyday for the last year (last time we talked about it). This will be shocking for her. She has commented in the past that this is a "very dirty" habit that she just cannot understand. We are getting along extremely well right now and are still in love. We've been together for 28 years (married 23). I'm not ready for this discussion and I don't think I will ever be. I feel like most of you won't like this approach and will want me to "come clean". I can't imagine telling her. Does it really matter?
The main reason, of many, is that you are lying to her. She may not ask you point blank, but when you vowed to forsake all others, that was a promise to her. You have broken that promise.
OK, I thought that was the main reason. Now that I typed that, the real main reason is that telling your wife is the 100% most important way that you get it in YOUR head that you are done. Yes, you must decide to quit for you and for the damage it does to you. People don't really change for other people. You can only commit to change if you believe for yourself that this is self destructive and you want to change. So, you said you have tried to quit 3-4 times in the past.
How hard did you try to quit before? What were your steps, what was your plan? Did you get counseling, join a forum, go to marriage counseling, install filters, and communicate honestly with your wife about your addiction, your feelings, your SELF? If you did all that, 3-4 times and failed, well, you tried. But, did you really try to quit those other times, or did you just think about it for your wife's sake? This is a hard question, I know. I just want you to think about when you say you tried before, how hard did you try? I don't know, so I am asking.
OK, so I have said all that. Now let me explain why I think telling your wife is the 100% most important thing you can do to aid in your quitting and recovery. When you don't tell her, you give yourself a loop hole. That's it. That's the main thing. So, today, you are trying hard. Then the going gets tough. You didn't get your filter software yet, so you slip up. Then you say, well, I am still trying. Oh well, at least my wife doesn't know, so it doesn't matter. Then, you may try again, or you binge and spiral back into it. But, if you tell your wife, you don't have that mental out. When you don't admit your problem to her, you are still giving yourself an out because you are distancing yourself from what this does to her. You are accountable to no one but yourself, and you already know you haven't had much luck in the past holding yourself accountable.
I think I am rambling now, so I don't know if this makes any sense at all. I am not trying to be harsh. It is commendable that you are here without your wife leaving you or holding your feet to the fire. Maybe you can beat this thing without ever telling your wife. It is possible. But as long as it is your secret, you are giving it power and in my opinion, saving it for a rainy day. Until you tell your wife, you always have it to go back to, because no one knows except you. As long as you are lying to her about this, its easier to keep lying to yourself about it too.
Do you know your wife must love you a lot if you guys have been together for more than 1/4 of a century? Maybe she will surprise you. Don't underestimate her love for you, but also don't underestimate how bad you both will feel if she finds out you have been lying to her. It is easier to deal with a man who comes clean about a problem than to deal with a man who lies and manipulates and only comes clean when his feet are held to the fire. Good luck on your journey. Keep us posted.
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Yes I know you are right.... -
12-18-2009, 03:54 PM
WifeOfNewLifeMan - You brought up multiple good points and I can't really argue with any of them. The question for me will be around when do I tell her. I would like to wait til I am at 30 days. the other 3 times didn't work for many reasons. i didn't have a real plan - stayed up late every night working and then porn (I've cut 18 hours of opportunity out by now going to bed with my wife much earlier), I have the TTF forum that I read through and post every day. I know harder days are ahead, but I have had so many opportunities to logon to porn and I've avoided it. I have wanted to masturbate many times and have not. This is different this time. I will take your advice and at least think through how I would tell her much sooner. Again, I can't debate anything you say and I truly appreciate you taking the time to provide me your thoughts. Thank you.
jrock123 journal day 0-5 -
12-11-2009, 02:10 PM
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